Curse

Shyft the Pyro · May 27, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

I don't think that's right.

[elemental attunement] is good if you have multiple spells across multiple lines, since it's elementaly blind

Dual attune lets you spam spells from any one Elementalist attribute line while keeping you "at close to 0 energy loss." Using Elemental Attunement with multiple Elementalist attribute lines would necessitate additional energy management skills, since a single non-elite Attunement would not work for some of the things on your bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

[mind blast] is usefull if you're going pure fire or mostly offensive fire.

It appears you've missed all the "this is the best Elementalist build ever" threads in this forum. By the general consensus achieved there, Mind Blast presents superior energy recovery, which makes it useful for spamming anything, from Blinding Flash to Heal Party.

The "offensive" part is right, though, and precisely what I was trying to emphasize: Mind Blast needs enemy targets to work, with all the consequences thereof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

[ether renewal] may surpass Elemental Attunement if used in a heavy enchantment build, such as build that uses [aor] and one of the other attunements. ER + an Attunement should keep you at close to 0 E loss, so you can spam just about any spell.

Ether Renewal will surpass Elemental Attunement under the same conditions (with non-elite Attunement and Aura of Restoration as a cover enchantment), resulting in actual energy gain for low-cost spells. That said, you don't actually need Ether Renewal, and you won't be able to keep it up 24/7 without devoting more slots (Glyph of Swiftness) and/or more attribute points to keeping it up, which makes Elemental Attunement (+ non-elite Attunement) a better option for "everyday" single-element spamming.

oracle.delphi · May 27, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

attunments are one of those skills that are supposed to be locked to your bar.

I "educate" any ele that pings a bar without one.

oh so that was YOU !! YOu JERK..lol

j.k i had someone suggest attunment to me back when i was a newb..best thing ever..i use other things in pvp tho because..well i found they worked better for me
otherwise pve look out..i have double attuns, 96 energy and FIRE

Jenn · May 27, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Think of this:

Dual attunements waste ~5 seconds of your time.
They can be stripped.
They can be interrupted.
That renders two spots on your skill bar absolutely useless.

Glyph of Lesser Energy is a 1 second cast.
It cannot be stripped.
It is less likely to be interrupted.
Worst case scenario, it gets interrupted and you have to wait 30 seconds more... which is LESS of a recharge time should your dual attunes get stripped/interrupted.

Same situation for Mind Blast, except it has a 3 second recharge.

And I know some of you think attunement is better, even if you just run one, because it lasts "longer" than GoLE, but I have to ask this: What in the hell are you spamming so much that GoLE can't keep up with it? MS certainly isn't spammable. Most spells that an ele will cast have a long enough recharge that you gain that energy back by the time it has recharged itself. The only exception might be Rodgort's Invocation, if you don't follow it up with a Glowing Gaze.

Bottom line, if you are bringing dual attunements, in the time you cast those, I could have casted a Rodgort's Invocation, and 2-3 other skills, and have gotten most of my energy back.

Like I said earlier in this thread, this method doesn't apply to all bars or attributes, but I speak for what is most commonly used amongst eles - fire.

zling · May 28, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22

since this is campi fire we're mainly talking about PvE here...
in which Dual Attunement is the safest option for e-management. mobs dont strip your enchantments that much...
Mind Blast is always good, Assassin's Promise really shines in PvE and the unnerfed Ether Renewal is also a great choice now(assuming you use some other enchantments)

MisterT69 · May 31, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Attunement's aren't really needed except for high energy requiring builds. Any build with [searing flames] or other high spamming elite skills. Other than that, other builds, like those with [assassin's promise] don't need attunements, because with this you have constant energy gain as long as you kill fast enough. And if you need more energy, [GoLE] is your friend

Thizzle · Jun 01, 2008, 07:31 AM // 07:31

I would bring an attunement every time.

acerbity · Jun 01, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

I would bring an attunement every time.

123456789012

Brian the Gladiator · Jun 02, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

GoLE + Non-elite attunement of your choice = all the energy management you will need to run any Elementalist bar in the entire game (as long as the attribute spread is not ridiculous).

I simply don't understand why anyone would want to bring duel attunement or dedicate any elite to energy management on an elementalist skill bar. This is how I look at it.

1) Duel attunements takes up 2 skill slots including an elite slot
2) GoLE + non-elite attune takes up 2 skill slots NOT including an elite slot
3) Both supply more than enough energy management to get the job done.

So why waste the elite slot???

I challenge anyone out there... Show me a duel-attune ele bar and I will show you a more effective bar that serves the same purpose. The dilemma is this... you simply can't win

My personal preference is this:
Bring your glyph, your attunement, and you're good to go!

Sookie · Jun 04, 2008, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

MS certainly isn't spammable.

I beg to differ...sort of.

With Fire Attunement, GoS + MS along with Assassin's Promise

, I have been able to "spam" MS quite effectively. I have gotten as many as 4 MS in a row with energy to spare by being careful to time AP properly.

If that is not spammable, it's at least semi-spammable.

Shyft the Pyro · Jun 04, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

<snip>challenge</snip>

Air spammer. Blinding Flash = 15e. Lightning Hammer = 25e. If you want to spam these on recharge, you pretty much need Elemental Attunement.

And before you say "that's useless in PvE," please consider that Epidemic combines well enough with a SS necro (Weaken Armor, Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood) to make Blind spam more useful than AoE damage in certain areas.

Damian979 · Jun 04, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

K, I know people are sensitive about their mind blast but I will say this anyway. I like it... I really do but, it only works when you aren't low on energy, in which case you don't need to be casting an e-manage skill. Where as it is barely > to glowing gaze in damage and equal in energy return, and your foes can be burning whether you have 10 energy or 50 energy.

[Mind Blast]+ low energy= elite [Flare]

burning+ [Glowing Gaze]= more damage and same e-return

Shyft the Pyro · Jun 04, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

K, I know people are sensitive about their mind blast but I will say this anyway. I like it... I really do but, it only works when you aren't low on energy, in which case you don't need to be casting an e-manage skill. Where as it is barely > to glowing gaze in damage and equal in energy return, and your foes can be burning whether you have 10 energy or 50 energy.

[Mind Blast]+ low energy= elite [Flare]

burning+ [Glowing Gaze]= more damage and same e-return

Burning doesn't always work (titans, destroyers), and Mark of TROGDOR makes Mind Blast cause burning too

If you're packing Mind Blast and running out of energy, you're doing it wrong. Get yourself a high-energy set (+30/-1regen staff or +42/-2regen wand + focus) and use weapon switching to end up above your enemies in energy count when casting Mind Blast and at +4 energy regen when not facing anything. Oh, and do not wait until you run out of energy to cast Mind Blast; do it on recharge, right after a high-cost spell and between spells.

You could also go crazy with the energy and put Insightful insignia on every armor piece; my AB ele runs around with the +30/-1 staff and tops out at 111. I get extra energy even from Mind Blasting other elementalists, and -1 regen is easy enough to manage without weapon switching.

Damian979 · Jun 04, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Burning doesn't always work (titans, destroyers), and Mark of TROGDOR makes Mind Blast cause burning too

Umm... I don't use fire against fire proof monsters

[Glowing Ice] [Glowstone]

Yes, with a staff devoted entirely to having insane amounts of energy, [Mind Blast] works great (until you hit a lvl 28 ele boss that laughs at 111 energy).

Everyone has their preference and if it works, then great. I just like my elites to pwn, not irritate monsters.

hurdlebeast · Jun 04, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

I don't think that's right.

[elemental attunement] is good if you have multiple spells across multiple lines, since it's elementaly blind

[mind blast] is usefull if you're going pure fire or mostly offensive fire.

[ether renewal] may surpass Elemental Attunement if used in a heavy enchantment build, such as build that uses [aor] and one of the other attunements. ER + an Attunement should keep you at close to 0 E loss, so you can spam just about any spell.

For Elemental Attunement: I have had much more luck using Elemental Attune+Fire Attune+Spamming Rodgort's Invocation than using any Mind Blast build. that's me personally.

As for Ether Renewal: go /D and Mystic Regen ftw!

Martin Firestorm · Jun 04, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enolena Sedai

I beg to differ...sort of.

With Fire Attunement, GoS + MS along with Assassin's Promise

, I have been able to "spam" MS quite effectively. I have gotten as many as 4 MS in a row with energy to spare by being careful to time AP properly.

If that is not spammable, it's at least semi-spammable.

But 4x exhaustion is usually a pretty big problem. And even if you've killed everything in range, waiting for all that exhaustion to clear is a huge drag.

The assassin's promise bar works best with searing heat and tenai's heat as its main offense, plus a couple more spammable skills like fireball for when you don't get the kill before the AP hex runs out or is removed. You run like a dwarf is a nice addition to keep the hexed foe from scattering from the aoe. Adding skills that cause exhaustion imo somewhat defeats the advantage of this bar: constantly generating high aoe spells without waiting for recharges or energy regen.

darkwoody · Jun 06, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

lol i run dual attument

works fine
no need for a difrent elle elite then ellemental attument whats this about...

MasterSasori · Jun 07, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

And I know some of you think attunement is better, even if you just run one, because it lasts "longer" than GoLE, but I have to ask this: What in the hell are you spamming so much that GoLE can't keep up with it?

[searing flames]. Even with gaze, this elite eats your energy like there's no tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

....The only exception might be Rodgort's Invocation, if you don't follow it up with a Glowing Gaze.

[QUOTE=Illfated Fat]
Though spamming is generally not a good idea, Rodgort + Immolation spam can be accomplished with Dual Attunes; not something you can do with GoLE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Bottom line, if you are bringing dual attunements, in the time you cast those, I could have casted a Rodgort's Invocation, and 2-3 other skills, and have gotten most of my energy back.

What moron would cast the dual attunes in the presence of another ele

If the caster isn't using 40/40 with his dual attunes, he should get his head checked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Like I said earlier in this thread, this method doesn't apply to all bars or attributes, but I speak for what is most commonly used amongst eles - fire.

Well in AB and PvE, dual attunes allow mindless spamming of skills in a fashion even more recklessly than an ele using [mindblast]. You should only be using Dual attunes in PvE, AB, and maybe RA anyway.

MasterSasori · Jun 07, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

And I know some of you think attunement is better, even if you just run one, because it lasts "longer" than GoLE, but I have to ask this: What in the hell are you spamming so much that GoLE can't keep up with it?

[searing flames]. Even with gaze, this elite eats your energy like there's no tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

....The only exception might be Rodgort's Invocation, if you don't follow it up with a Glowing Gaze.

Though spamming is generally not a good idea, Rodgort + Immolation spam can be accomplished with Dual Attunes; not something you can do with GoLE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Bottom line, if you are bringing dual attunements, in the time you cast those, I could have casted a Rodgort's Invocation, and 2-3 other skills, and have gotten most of my energy back.

What moron would cast the dual attunes in the presence of another ele

If the caster isn't using 40/40 with his dual attunes, he should get his head checked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Like I said earlier in this thread, this method doesn't apply to all bars or attributes, but I speak for what is most commonly used amongst eles - fire.

Well in AB and PvE, dual attunes allow mindless spamming of fire skills in a fashion even more recklessly than an ele using [mindblast]. It's fairly difficult to run low on energy with constant spamming while under the effects of dual attunes while this does not hold true for GoLE.

You should only be using Dual attunes in PvE, AB, and maybe RA anyway.

Brian the Gladiator · Jun 08, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Air spammer. Blinding Flash = 15e. Lightning Hammer = 25e. If you want to spam these on recharge, you pretty much need Elemental Attunement.

And before you say "that's useless in PvE," please consider that Epidemic combines well enough with a SS necro (Weaken Armor, Enfeeble/Enfeebling Blood) to make Blind spam more useful than AoE damage in certain areas.

Are you serious... this is the easiest build to counter ever... strip the attunes and the build is gone. Or... Or... Or... you could simply run Blinding Surge + Air Attunement and GoLE and spam just as much if not more. Thanks for setting me up so nicely!!! You don't even need epidemic with my build because B-surge is AOE blind to enchanted targets so a lot of the time you will be blinding multiple foes... how great is that!

[build prof=Elementalist/Ritualist][Blinding Surge][Lightning Orb][Shock Arrow][Gale][Ward Against Melee][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Air Attunement][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

This build does a better job at shutting down melee than any duel attuned air ele could. I win!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

What moron would cast the dual attunes in the presence of another ele

If the caster isn't using 40/40 with his dual attunes, he should get his head checked.

You shouldn't be using a 40/40 on duel attunes for a couple reasons:
1) you should be using a 40/20 + enchantment 20%
2) your elemental attunement wont cast or recharge faster under the same 40/40 as the other attunement and its not worth bringing two 40/40 sets just for the ele attunement.

Shyft the Pyro · Jun 08, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Counters; shutdown; disrespect.

I'm sorry, but what part of PvE don't you understand? No one cares about counters or shutdown, because neither exists on a widespread enough basis. For that matter, no one cares what your elite is if you're just out hero/henching something. Dual attunements are often a matter of convenience (due to the long duration) and personal choice (as this thread has shown). Yes, you could use something else as your elite, but when spamming non-elite skills from a single Elementalist attribute line, the convenience of fire-and-forget enchantments is simply too much to ignore.

I do find your build funny, if only because of this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Bring your glyph, your attunement, and you're good to go!

I'm guessing Shock Arrow didn't make it into your build because of its stellar projectile-dependent damage, but it leaves a lot to be desired when compared to its brethren in other attribute lines (Glowing Gaze/Ice/Glowstone). Since the patch that made queuing up attacks not count as "attacking," catching a "while attacking" condition has become a lot harder. For your build, this means you'll either be forced to cast a lot less frequently, or wait a lot longer between fights for your massive energy pool to recover. Otherwise, you will not be able to spam your skills as they recharge, which is essentially the only way for an air elementalist to catch up to the AoE damage output of other attribute lines.

What makes your build vulnerable is precisely what you've cited about dual attunements: enchantment removal. With Aura of Restoration as a cover, the attunements are protected; even the loss of Aura of Restoration and the non-elite attunement (assuming you didn't have time to toss Aura of Restoration back up) won't hinder you severely. In your build, the lone attunement is just as prone to removal, but you have neither a cover enchantment nor a backup energy management plan. Glyph's recharge and Shock Arrow's iffiness won't be enough; your build would have the edge in energy management only in situations where cover enchantments don't matter, such as if all attunements are removed at once by Lingering Curse, Rend Enchantments, Gaze of Contempt, or similar means.

As for your choice of elite, Blinding Surge may damage and blind, but in no way does it present a guaranteed AoE blind as much as Blinding Flash + Epidemic does. The AoE blindness of the Surge is conditional on the enemy being enchanted, which essentially means you'll be able to blind Dervish mobs with amazing consistency, but will end up with a cross between a Lightning Strike and a Blinding Flash for your elite most of the time. PvP-wise, Blinding Surge is great, but there are better choices for PvE.